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Bobzilla
So I have been thinking about this for a while, and I'm still not sure how well this will go over with the finance manager. BUT..... I've had a vision of Porky gutted, caged and prepped for SCCA Club Racing in Improved Touring A (ITA) class. I think the stiff structure, the simplicity of it's suspension, the ruggedness of the car overall would do well in this sport.

WHAT IT WOULD TAKE

It would need to be gutted and caged for obvious reasons, a firesupression system, race seat and harness and a door net. suspension would need a set of Koni inserts and some ground control coilovers with 7" race springs. Upper pillowball mounts to get complete camber/caster adjustment, rear lower adjustable arms. Rear disc swap and some Hawk Blue pads and Motul fluid with stainless lines. Engine would be cleaned, head milled, block decked, light port/polish and a 3-angle valve job. 4-1 header, 2.25" exhaust with no cats, a magnaflow 2.5" straight through muffler and a side turnout in front of hte passenger rear tire All this controlled with a Megasquirt EM system, hopefully putting out somewhere in the neighborhood of 150-160 at the front wheels and about 2500lbs with driver.

Now, will it happen? Likely not. But this is my last dream for the car. It's more likely to spend the next 5-6 years being pounded into the ground as a super reliable daily driver instead. With the Swift, the wife was not real receptive to the idea at all! laugh.gif
bhorste
That'd be cool, but why stop there? G Production (or wherever Porky might fall) would be even more fun, and the Limited Prep rules would mean it's still eligible for ITA.
Bobzilla
I think last hurrah would just be a N/A high compression beast good for about 190whp and just take it to HPDE's.
Tom06
Too bad it would cost thousands to be able to send some power to the rear wheels...
Bobzilla
No need. The car is really pretty well balanced. What slows it down on a small auto-x course are benefits on a road course. It's stable, turns in well and can handle some massive tires (think 245's with the fender lips flare a touch).
Shadowhawk
Good luck man.
Shadowhawk
QUOTE (Tom06 @ Jan 28 2010, 05:59 AM) *
Too bad it would cost thousands to be able to send some power to the rear wheels...


When does it ever not take thousands to make any car get better power to the rear wheels? Even a 91 miata takes 2k for the kit and tune.
sschung
unless you are trying to be different or just really love the elantra platform it's not worth it. the chassis will not be competitive (especially if you go into mod classes). it will be far cheaper (unless you do ALL the work) to buy a used prepped car. there are lots fully prepped of older civics and miata race cars for sale which will be much cheaper and far more competitive.
Bobzilla
I would suggest some reading up on Club Racing. IT classes offer great opportunities at a nice entry level cost. Neons and Sentra's are quite competitive cars. The Elantra offers a lot of the same benefits of the neon, minus the factory backing in SSB back in the day, only with a stiffer platform to start form.

Of course I do all the work myself, I have for decades. Literally. Hell, at 16 I had to repair a car so I could drive it. I have someone for cage work, petitioning the CRB for a class is not that difficult, especially when you can provide solid numbers. A 2500-2600lbs (w/driver) Elantra would compete quite well with SOHC Neon weighing in at 2650 with driver. Similar power, similar chassis setups, similar weights.....

Again, this is likely not how the car will see it's end, but if I get the chance it will.
Tom06
QUOTE (Shadowhawk @ Jan 28 2010, 12:25 PM) *
When does it ever not take thousands to make any car get better power to the rear wheels? Even a 91 miata takes 2k for the kit and tune.


I thought that the Miata has always been RWD? I was talking about a hacked together RWD conversion, like some people have done with Civics.
Shadowhawk
QUOTE (Tom06 @ Jan 28 2010, 09:47 AM) *
I thought that the Miata has always been RWD? I was talking about a hacked together RWD conversion, like some people have done with Civics.


eh... Why would you ever want to put that much work into the Elantra? If you want a rwd spendin 1.2k on a miata and spend the rest from the trade in to get the turbo and internals. The elantra is an eco car. Few have ventured to make it a racer. Mostly Koreans.
Bobzilla
My opinion on converting FWD to RWD: If you want a RWD car, buy a RWD car. There is a ton of engineering behind a vehicle, and to start changing things in this massive of a fashion is just plain silly to me.

In case many of you forgot, this platform has already been roadraced. Hyundai of Canada actually ran both the RD and GK Tibs in the Koni Grand Am series in the early 2000's quite successfully. Considering the RD, XD and GK are all on the same platform, there's not much left to figure out.
Shadowhawk
YEAH! It wasn't me this time. Bobzilla speaks the truth. They have an accent out there right now that is rally racing and is smoking the comp. Same with a tib. Cars that are made FWD should stay FWD. You don't see people taking the early Evo's that where FWD and making them RWD? They still make killer times on the track. They are made for a reason, not so someone can just hack and slash and get it switched.

Cheap if you want AWD:
Talon
Miata

Cheap FWD:
Elantra tongue.gif
Bobzilla
QUOTE (Shadowhawk @ Jan 28 2010, 01:59 PM) *
eh... Why would you ever want to put that much work into the Elantra? If you want a rwd spendin 1.2k on a miata and spend the rest from the trade in to get the turbo and internals. The elantra is an eco car. Few have ventured to make it a racer. Mostly Koreans.


#1, decent Miatae are hard to find under $2500.
Letter A.) I would be putting it into a Club racing class, and turbo's on non-turbo cars is sub a) retarded because of their unreliability and sub B) not allowed in ANY class.
III.) If I wanted something like that, I'll just cage the swift and run it in ITB and be done.

FOLKS: Pay attention to this paragraph. I do not want a Miata. this is not about whether it's feasible, doable or worth it. I do not care if you don't like my end dream for the car, go find your own. This is not about converting an Elantra to rwd, it's not about honda's, toyota's or anythign other than gutting caging and road racing in a legal sanctioning body's race organization, most specifically the SCCA's Club Racing program. Got it?
Shadowhawk
I wasn't talking to you about the miata.. was talking to tom6. gah! I know what you where talking about. Just Tom6 was shooting at something that is easily achieved by cheaper cars. You do what you do best.
popeye
OK what a bout a Toyota or Honda...?










Just baitin' ya man tongue.gif
Bobzilla
QUOTE (Shadowhawk @ Jan 28 2010, 02:09 PM) *
YEAH! It wasn't me this time. Bobzilla speaks the truth. They have an accent out there right now that is rally racing and is smoking the comp. Same with a tib. Cars that are made FWD should stay FWD. You don't see people taking the early Evo's that where FWD and making them RWD? They still make killer times on the track. They are made for a reason, not so someone can just hack and slash and get it switched.

Cheap if you want AWD:
Talon
Miata

Cheap FWD:
Elantra tongue.gif


My gawd.... please stop posting. I mean that. No DSM was ever "cheap". They were piles of poo when pushed, could make great power when built properly, but that meant $$$.

Miatae were ONLY EVER RWD. Most were 1wd.

QUOTE (popeye @ Jan 28 2010, 02:16 PM) *
OK what a bout a Toyota or Honda...?










Just baitin' ya man tongue.gif


You no good.... tongue.gif
Shadowhawk
QUOTE (Bobzilla @ Jan 28 2010, 10:17 AM) *
My gawd.... please stop posting. I mean that. No DSM was ever "cheap". They were piles of poo when pushed, could make great power when built properly, but that meant $$$.

Miatae were ONLY EVER RWD. Most were 1wd.


B) learn first who I'm talking to. Then tell me to stop posting. Was ONCE AGAIN! Talking to the other guy. Not you. ffs. And yes DSM's do break down a lot. but have been proven to do well on the track if done right. I've seen them here in Ak at our local track.

And since you are hell bent on miata's after I said I was talking to the other guy on a cheap project. They are found here in Ak for really cheap. One was selling his for 1.2k on AKMS.
I'm done with this lol. Getting old really fast.
Tom06
Haha guys, sorry for throwing out my RWD Elantra idea. It wasn't meant to be too serious and would be a waste of $.
Bobzilla
I don't think our Alaskan friend has any idea what my opening post was really about. 1/4 mile in a straight line is not a "track" to me. It's the beginning of a nice straight away that should be followed by a nice left (or right) turn leading into a series of esses.... Turbo AWD DSM's are not "good" on that type of track for a budget minded racer. Ever.
silet
I think the XD is too heavy for this. Do you remember what Jay got with his weight reduction experiment?

You forgot to include the J2 in the similar platform catagory. Now those are really 2,650 lbs.
Bobzilla
Yep, he was down to about 2500lbs IIRC with him and no interior. I'd be at or even lower than as I couldn't have the door trim panels he was using, nor the airbags or pretensioning seatbelts. For a true ITA build I think you could squeeze her down to 2650 with a 200lb driver.
popeye
QUOTE (Bobzilla @ Jan 28 2010, 01:07 PM) *
Yep, he was down to about 2500lbs IIRC with him and no interior. I'd be at or even lower than as I couldn't have the door trim panels he was using, nor the airbags or pretensioning seatbelts. For a true ITA build I think you could squeeze her down to 2650 with a 200lb driver.


Pay my way at Skip Barber and that lose you an extra 70 pounds tongue.gif laugh.gif
Bobzilla
i'll have to lose about 20lbs myself to get to that weight!
popeye
QUOTE (Bobzilla @ Jan 28 2010, 01:17 PM) *
i'll have to lose about 20lbs myself to get to that weight!


130?
Bobzilla
no... to the 200. laugh.gif
silet
Well that ain't happening ohmy.gif Forget about the whole thing tongue.gif
sschung
i still stand by what i say. if it's for fun, sure go ahead but don't expect to be competitive. the xd platform is too heavy and does not have a good enough chassis and suspension geometry to be competitive (unless you throw *lots* of money at it).

comparing the xd to civics and neons is a no go as well. a stripped and gutted early 90's civic can weight well under 2000lb with a terrific chassis and great front suspension geometry (and don't even go there with the ITR). the neon is in a similar category (particularly the ACR which is a great handler stock). the 1st gen coupes can get down to 2000lb stripped and gutted and it has a freak chassis which handles very well despite econo car roots (forget the 2nd gens unless you are talking SRT-4 and even then it does not have the chassis to really be competitive). there's a reason local tracks are overrun by these cars and they have their own racing series. (honestly, if you find a first gen neon acr in good condition you should buy it strictly for bargain budget racing. i would if i had the garage space!)

you'll have fun and may even be competitive on a local level (if you are a good driver) but it will be very hard to be competitive on a state scale (forget about national level). it's a great goal if you are out to have fun and just decrease lap times.

for all these people quoting hyundai racing teams and such, please. bob is talking about grassroots racing here, not factory backed teams in strict regulation racing circuits. not a valid comparison.

i won't get into drag racing, miatas or dsms, although those are fun topics as well.
Bobzilla
Neons are hampered by the old Street Stock rules. Minimum weight on a SOHC Coupe is 2650. DOHC is 2850. They still use teh same Macstrut suspension the Elantra uses, use a 2.0L (SOHC's see about 140 at the front wheels with an IT prep, DOHC's about 170). Our final drive is closer to the ACR transmission's 3.52 and we have more fender room for wider tires.

IT is a regional class that does not compete nationally. So, yep, it'd be local-ish.

I have an idea, how about you read up and do some research on whta it is I am talking abnout that way you don't sound so....what;s the PC word I'm looking for.... "uninformed". I'm talking about club racing which has strict rules enforcement that follows a lot of the same guidelines the Koni Challenge series has used since the Trans Am days.
sschung
most econoboxes are mac strut suspensions nowadays but this does not make them all equal when it comes to handling. upgrade a cavalier and upgrade a protege with the same suspension packages and see which handles better (both are of similar weight). the neon was a real oddball in how suprisingly well it handled. this is the only reason i mentioned it.

admittedly i'm not up to date on the current IT scca rules. but really besides from a minimum weight and it not being a national standing how far off was i? if you feel that you can work within them and be competitive i don't see what's stopping you. the car can still be made a fun car to drive, i've never denied that. i still think it won't be as competitive as the most popular models. i still think it will be a lot cheaper to buy a prepped car. it will depend on whether you are doing it to race A car or to race THIS car. you're in the same boat as people who decide to FI the elantra.

i don't know why you feel the need to be so .. insulting... to people when you're the one who's asked for opinions. it's not an advocacy thread and it really doesn't make me want to contribute to your threads at all.
Bobzilla
First off, you're mistaken. I;m not asking for opinions. I'm merely venting my final thoughts for this car. Ones that, had you read the OP, would know that will never happen. This car has had it's glory days. But if money were no option, and I had the cash to do so, that is exactly what I would do with the car. Similar weight, similar dimensions and I have already out handled the neons in ST(S) when it was also my auto-x car.

Yes, I know that it's cheaper to buy an already built car. Yes I know it's easier to do so with a "spec" car that everyone else has already ran. I;m an oddball. I enjoy doing things in cars no one else would consider beating those in the "right" cars. The Elantra (and RD/GK) tibs were neer goin to be blisteringly fast in a straight line, but their chassis is perfect when the straight line gets all squiggly. The Swift is already a mildly competitive ITB car, and since it will eventually be converted and prepped.

This was merely an exercise of mental fantasy that was promptly pooped on. Thanks.
popeye
QUOTE (Bobzilla @ Feb 1 2010, 10:59 AM) *
This was merely an exercise of mental fantasy that was promptly pooped on. Thanks.


I've got a mop and some bleach, need to borrow them?

Being a hell of a dreamer myself (Scarlett Johannson is my 14th wife), I understood from the git go and thought it was a good exercise. That said, but when one starts talking cars, racing and mods people are likely to give opinions whether they think you'll want to hear them or not. Guns and guitars are another example of this.
silet
I forgot, why can't you turbo it?
Bobzilla
Engine has to be in stock for (n/a if n/a, turbo if turbo, etc), mild head work, mild porting, unlimited engine management (ie standalone).
sschung
i didn't think (or want to come across) as pooping on your ideas. i did say that if you really like the platform you should go ahead and it will be a much more fun car to drive. i just didn't think it would be competitive or cheap.

if i came across as dumping on your idea, apologies. just wanted to be realistic about the whole thing (which doesn't always jive with dreaming). my last project car was a similar prospect. ideally it could have been 'competitive' but realistically it would have taken boatloads of money to do. i ended up somewhere in between in the end (but much closer to non competitive than competitive). despite that i still love that car, which was the whole reason i tinkered with it, despite it not being competitive.

i personally would like to see someone go ahead and dump some money into an elantra...
calfirefighter1
I'm on board. If your interior is in good shape sell it and help cover the cost of the cage.

I had a car with k oni five ways( dislexic moment I hope u said koni in the first post)and st springs and I love love loved it.

I can't tell you how many times I have wanted to do what you are talking about.

I hope I can un poo your idea.

Its less about competing against the other car and more about competing with your self.

Do it. And if you don't keep dreaming

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