Not in sales but quality ?
I sat in an Optima and was very impressed. The dealer had a fully load one discounted to $19,900. The same dealer had Ford's as well so I sat in a Fusion and walked away feeling it was way overpriced at $29990 ! (No kidding)
Which beings the question - Is Hyundai/KIA already better at making cars then one of the oldest car makers in the world ? If you notice they never mention competing with American makers just Japan's and now Germans.

I know H/K doesn't make the best in the world but the progress in just a few years is pretty remarkable. Whats your take ?

Base Elantra > base Focus

I want a Kia Sorrento

I agree. I had to rent a car two weeks ago and I got a kia minivan (I think it was the Rondo) And it was pretty damned enjoyable. If I had two kids and a dog I would get that over a Windstar any day.

American car companies are running backwards into the future. Any fool can understand that nobody appreciates innovation more than Americans. But every time they release a new car it is more poorly designed than the last model. My sister had an explorer and every two months the thing broke down or something malfunctioned, when you shift from park to drive you smack your hand on the dashboard, when you put a cup in the cup holder you can't open the ash tray.

My dad owns a Mitsubishi Montero Ltd. He's had it for 8 years and it never had a single problem. And gets relatively good gas mileage for an suv that's 8 years old. What car do you think he's going to buy next year when he sells his old one? Not that an explorer is even in the same class, but no errors in 8 years says something about integrity in a car company.

The Kia minivan is the Sedona. The Hyundai Entourage is a rebaged Sedona. The Rondo is a cross-over SUV that is based off of the Optima platform.
I do agree that a lot of American cars are getting worse and at least GM seams to be trying to get better..

I was really torn whether to go for the optima or the sonata when I was shopping last month. I really like the 5 speed and interior of the Kia. Yet, the esc, abs, and traction control are standard on the sonata and hard to find options on the kia. My wallet won the argument when I decided to hang on to my $$$ a little while longer. I hope I can hold out for a diesel but thats a bit far off.

I think they are good cars but have an even poorer dealer svc network than Hyundai. Kinda reminds me of my initial impression when I came back to Hyundai in 01.

I used to be a Ford guy, until I bought my first Hyundai. I did have an OK experience with a Japanese pickup truck prior to the Hyundai. It lasted me 140,000 miles before the head warped. It was a '91 Isuzu P'up. Build in the SIA plant in Indiana, where they are now building Legacy, Tribeca, and Outback BTW. Later this year they will start building the Camry there too, now that Toyota owns a controlling interest in Fuji Heavy Industries. But I'm getting off topic.

I will admit that I did not know what to expect when I took that test drive in the Elantra, but I was very pleasantly surprised. Many of you know that I traded that '01 GLS in on a '06 GT because I enjoyed so few problems with the first one, and the GT is on par with my high expectations.

I really don't know what the American automobile manufacturers have to do to get me back into one of their products. While they have made major improvements over the years they always seem to be just one step behind the Japanese, and now the Koreans.

Automotive News recently reported on the shakeout of the auto industry in the US, and the situation is even more grim than ever for the existing "Big 3". Initially it was thought that Toyota might bump Chrysler out of the third spot, and they are, but in a very different way than expected. Very soon the "big 3" will consist of Toyota on the top, GM second, Ford a distant third, and Chrysler... well no longer a member of the "big 3".

Of the American manufacturers, I would probably only consider a Ford, because I just don't like the product offerings of the other two, with the exception of the Corvette, but that ain't happening anytime soon. Even if I found a Ford that I really liked, I'd be hard pressed to pay thousands more for that car just to pay for some UAW retirees insurance premiums. If I have to pay thousands more, I expect that money to buy me more car.

My parents used to buy Cutlasses, but as the price started to creep up, they didn't want to pay the money for one. So they got a Cavalier Station wagon, this was in the mid-80s. It was a complete POS. While we were visiting some cousins we drove their Accord. My parents have now owned a 87, 92, 97 and 2002 Accords, 85 and 94 Preludes and a 99 Civic. The 92 Accord broke a timing belt and messed up the engine, but that was because my mom didn't get the timing belt replaced when it was due.

When my wife and I got married she had a Neon R/T, decent car to drive, but it was so loud on the highway you couldn't talk and got a headache from the noise. It got traded in for a Sante Fe. Just before we had our second child we traded the Sante Fe for a Grand Caravan, decent, but more problems than you would expect on a new car. We ended up trading it in for a Sienna, took a huge loss on the deal, but it was worth it. We've had the Sienna for 18 months now and not a single problem other than a dead battery when the kids left the interior lights on.

It will be a very long time until I go back to a domestic car. It's just my experience, but I've had very good luck with imports and fairly bad to really bad luck with domestics. Why should I give my hard earned money to an American company that builds their cars outside of the US instead of a foreign company that builds cars in the US. Our Sienna was built in southern Indiana, heck some of my family members probably worked on it.

I got a great deal on my Elantra, I bought it with 92k miles on it. I hope it will easily last me to 150k to 200k without any major mechanical, I'm crossing my fingers as I type this, problems.

Yes, some of the domestic cars are very good, but they are the exceptions rather than the norm. On most imports the bad car is the exception. Hyundai is fighting to overcome their name, when they first brought cars to the US, they weren't good. They have made very rapid improvement and while the perception still isn't there, it is changing. It is eerily similar to Honda and Toyota when they started in the US.

That's why I own an Elantra today. I actually had a verbal agreement on a Focus. I refused to sign any papers, though, until they could see my trade in. I refuse to make a deal before all the pieces are in place. On the way home I decided to swing by the Hyundai dealership and take one drive of an Elantra to reinforce my decision to buy the Focus and it ended up working the other way around. The Elantra to me is clearly the better car.

Having said that: Quality? No, I'm not ready to give Hyundai the quality kudos. My Elantra has been in the shop for warranty repairs AT LEAST 10 times in 36,000 miles (for basically 3 issues). My wife's Taurus has been in the shop twice for warranty issues in 90,000 miles (we bought a 100k warranty). And each time they fixed it right the first time. Sorry, my experience tells me that Hyundai still has a way to go.

In day-to-day driving, fit and finish, quality of materials, yes, Hyundai is better than Ford. Quality? Nope.

And for those of us in the know, it means a good car at a better price!

Y'all missed the biggest reason. . . KIA/Hyundais don't catch on fire spomtaneously. Seriously, in the last 15 years, how many recalls has ford had that involved the vehicle bursting into flames?

Ford is on the verge of losing it completely. THey have no great products. What's worse, they have none in the pipeline.

My parents have been American buyers their entire life... but mainly on Ford's and GM's.. (don't recall any Chryslers in their history)...

Fords: Mustang, Mustang II, Pinto, Explorer, Taurus, F-150...

Elantra pwns them all.

I like Ford, but the recurring problem we had was the auto-tranny. Just can't seem to last. Engine is fine but not the tranny. And then small stuff electrically or vaccum hoses going wrong. So far on the Ultra, engine and tranny are fine (70k) but the power seats dont work properly! And the AC doesn't like to stay cold on the drivers side, while the passenger side will continue to put out cold air. No other issues other than normal maintinence like shocks need to be replaced. My old 91 Buick was an electrical gremlin nightmare, but it was 13-14 yold at the time with 192k when i traded it in. Engine and tranny were still great! So its kinda mixed but it was all the used car issues that drove me to get a Hyundai/new car (and that i could get financing on used)

That Fusion will certainly out do that Optima tho. That was the fully loaded V6 AWD SEL you were sitting in.

Performance wise surely, the Ford will win. But it seemed the KIA was put together better. The interior for the Ford was lacking. Pretty plain for a 30 grand car, not to mention the seat stiching didn't look right, as well as, misaligned panels. Not awfully bad but for 30 g's ?

Not trying to put down American cars there are some good ones but just today I had to give a ride to a friend because his 03 Buick something (I forget) had engine problems. It's only at 80k. Upon picking him up he said "Man, your Elantra still runs good how many miles you got ? I told him 120k. "Wow even still looks good" he said.