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SWortham
From last weekend...





Picture #2 shows that my car does in fact have some bodyroll. I already have big sway bars, upgraded struts, and camber plates. But I may need stiffer springs yet.
Silentwolf
Most consumer vehicles are going to have some body roll. The key is if your tires stay planted thru it all. I dont think the heisted leg thing that happens on the elantras is the best thing for handling.
SWortham
Yeah, I was half joking. Every car is going to have some bodyroll no matter how stiff your suspension is. If nothing else, the very action of the tires compressing will cause the bodyroll as weight is transferred.

It's just that I was watching an in-car video from a WRX with coilovers and the thing the car (and the driver) did extremely well was to minimize the "wasted" time through the slalom where the tires aren't screeching. In other words, he was so quick to make the weight transfer from side to side through the slalom that he was able to use all of the car's grip to navigate through the slalom faster than my car could.

I honestly think the car will see minimal benefit in steady state turns with stiffer springs. I say that because I'm already using some aggressive negative camber to counter the off-camber effects of the bodyroll. And the car already has a good balance as it is. But there's obviously some improvement to be made in the transitions. And for that, I'd need stiffer springs so that's why I'm entertaining the idea again. I think I need 25% higher spring rates and about a 15mm lowering... that should do it.

At some point I'll probably get some higher durometer rubber bushings installed throughout the car as well. There are some major connection points in the trailing arms and lateral links that are basically like marshmallows as it is. They allow too much flex before the sway bars are even engaged. So replacing those bushings should improve response and reduce bodyroll a bit as well.

Ah, the joys of tuning.
cobas
I'd think about ride comfort though, I mean this is still you DD, right? I know there's a limit to how extreme an autocross setup I'd be willing to live with.

Also, this is more general... don't almost all car suspensions develop negative camber under heavy load? I thought this was on purpose to compensate for body roll. Is it not enough?
Bobzilla
Weight is your enemy Steve-o. I'm beginning to believe this mantra more and more.

Less weight= less enertia=faster transitions.
SWortham
QUOTE (cobas @ Sep 19 2007, 04:41 PM)
I'd think about ride comfort though, I mean this is still you DD, right? I know there's a limit to how extreme an autocross setup I'd be willing to live with.

That's right, and that's why I uninstalled the lowering springs I had before in favor of the stock springs. But there are several differences with what I'm considering now so it would still be a much better ride quality than what I had before...
#1. I'll be using springs that are roughly 7mm taller and 15% softer than what I had before.
#2. They won't have coil-bind problems. Yikes!
#3. I have lowering camber plates now which gives me more suspension travel.
#4. I have Ohlins struts now which have nearly 1" more travel than the stock struts and an uber-awesome European feel.

QUOTE (cobas @ Sep 19 2007, 04:41 PM)
Also, this is more general... don't almost all car suspensions develop negative camber under heavy load? I thought this was on purpose to compensate for body roll. Is it not enough?
*

Yes, well some are better than others. Cars with macpherson struts are not so good about this. So inevitably it's not enough to rely on the inherent camber curves of the suspension and you have to dial in a lot of static negative camber if you're looking for grip. In my case I'm running -2.1 degrees front and -1.6 degrees rear camber. The nationally competitive STI's tend to run even more.
---------
QUOTE (Bobzilla @ Sep 19 2007, 04:48 PM)
Weight is your enemy Steve-o. I'm beginning to believe this mantra more and more. 

Less weight= less enertia=faster transitions.
*

Yes, yes it is. Ever since I saw that journal from AnorexicSTI I've been toying with ideas about what I can remove or replace with lighter parts. I have plenty of ideas but it's going to take a whole lot of research to figure out what I can and can't do within the rules. Or maybe I'll just say "screw it" and make the move to X-Prepared so I can do whatever I want.
Bobzilla
Get a Super Stalker with me. That way when I get divorced (because she's thoroughly pissed!) I can move in with you and we can be racing buddies. thumbsup.gif
SWortham
If I buy a race car it's going to be a kart. It just makes too much sense not to do it. I'll have to wait until I get my own place though 'cause I don't have any room in the garage.
Bobzilla
But a SS can also be a motorcycle on 4 wheels!

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