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JohnsRedGT
Help me out here, guys - in 14.10.D it says emmisions legal headers are allowed. HOWEVER...............since all headers for our car remove the first cat, are we still good to go or are we screwed? I appreciate the help.

Happy fourth! usaflag.gif
Ishtar
how many people know that about our engines is the key question wink.gif
JohnsRedGT
Whether they know or not; I want to play by the rules................ once I figure them out....
Bobzilla
TECHINCALLY: No. It isn't legal. The bigger question is that "possible" 5hp gain worth getting bumped up? To me no.
JohnsRedGT
The primary cat must remain on the vehicle, but if there are multiple cats, such as the on in your exhaust manifold, it can be removed.*


* I think... this is based on my somewhat foggy recollection of the recent STS/STX/STU cat thread over on www.sccaforums.com.

-Erik
_________________
EriK Mohn
Kentucky Region Solo/Activities Chair
#83 C-Modified Van Diemen FF1600

I had also asked the local SCCA club the same question, and it would appear that we are good to go. It makes sense to me since the main cat remains and the purpose of STS is for guys who have done a few mods to compete and headers is certainly a common mod.
Bobzilla
IF my car was a track-only car, then I might jump to the header. But living with one on a day to day basis with all the annoyances tha come with a header (gasket leaks, exhaust leaks from the fabrication) PLUS dealing with a CEL alot of the time is just not a sacrifice I wanna make for a measely 3-5hp.
JohnsRedGT
Even with a quality product? I read a lot of good things about the HotShot headers with almost no negative comments.

Another question - do you have your race only tires on those Sonata wheels? How much do they weigh? Might be a great way to have 16" track only tires. I'm guessing if I scrounged the bone yards long enough, I could find a set cheaply....
Bobzilla
No, I have a set of Konig Holes (15 lbs each, paid $75ea new) for racing. THe Sonata wheels are my DD with the KH16 Kumhos in 205/55/16. I've got about 28k miles on those tires.
JohnsRedGT
Gotcha.... do you have any idea how much the Sonata wheels weigh?
Bobzilla
I know that Sonata wheels/KH16's are 45lbs IIRC, and the Konigs/tires are 29 ea.
---------
QUOTE
Even with a quality product? I read a lot of good things about the HotShot headers with almost no negative comments.


Big question is: How many miles have people put on them? Headers are always an issue IMO. I;ve had tehm on several cars and with time youhave to retighten the bolts, change gaskets. No header is a direct fit IIRC, and all require cutting and welding of the stock pipe.

Me, I need trouble free and long term. 5hp is just not worth the added hassle and possible class change, especially since each region has a different view on that. In my personal opinion I think finding a tuning solution to our craptastic PCM's would be a better long term option.
JohnsRedGT
That is a significant reduction in unsprung weight...
Bobzilla
And a huge change in gear ratio. I effectively change from the 3.20:1 final drive with the sonata/kh16 to a 3.90:1 with the holes/sumitomo's. Between the 15lbs weight loss and almost 20% gear change it's decidedly quicker out of the hole.
SWortham
Even if you have multiple cats, I'm pretty sure that you're not allowed to remove even one of them in the street touring classes. But you are allowed to replace your existing cat with a high-flow cat as long at still meets emissions standards. That's what I did with my STI and it is STU-legal to do so.
JohnsRedGT
OK; perhaps it is a regional interpretation of that particular rule.
Bobzilla
^ i WAS THINKING THAT we had a stink over one of the cars because they removed the primary cat (manifold) for a header on a focus IIRC. He was bumped to STX(?) and he sucks.
JohnsRedGT
Well, I think I'll just go to the next local event and talk to the guys about that. BTW, thru the military I can get Hankook RS-2 225/45/16's for $115 each; is that a good price?
Bobzilla
Discount Tire Direct has them for $101 each. Shipped.
Toecutter
QUOTE (SWortham @ Jul 5 2007, 10:35 AM)
Even if you have multiple cats, I'm pretty sure that you're not allowed to remove even one of them in the street touring classes.  But you are allowed to replace your existing cat with a high-flow cat as long at still meets emissions standards.  That's what I did with my STI and it is STU-legal to do so.
*


Steve is partly correct. Rule 14.10.D refers to rule 13.10.E which stricly prohibits the movement or removal of any of the catylitic converters, and you may only replace a cat with a high flow in STS if your car has exceeded 50,000 miles or is more than 5 years old. Steve can use a high-flow cat because it is allowed without mileage/time restrictions for STX and STU.

The discussions that you have read on the SCCA forums are just that... discussions. The SEB has not changed the rules. However, it is unlikely, unless someone is a total peckerhead, that this will be a problem for you at the local level. I run a header and no primary cat, but nobody in my club really cares.

The rule doesn't make a lot of sense. A civic hatch can run a header but an Elantra (or many other more modern vehicles) can't? This is why the there is an ongonig discussion at the SCCA forums. However, for now the rule stands. Do what you want to, but I wouldn't sweat it unless you plan on being competitive in the national events.
Bobzilla
I wanna be competitive at the national level. Doesn't mena I will be, just means I wanna! haha.gif
Toecutter
So very true Bob. I wasn't quite sure how to word that one.

Also, I see that one of these peckerheads that I referred to resides in the Indy region.
Bobzilla
"Rules" people live everywhere. That's just one more reason for me to leave the car "as-is" for STS. I still don't understand the need for a header on our cars, but to each his own. I'd rather have a better head, cams and tuning.
Toecutter
Can't mess with the head or cams in STS either Bob. Basically you aren't allowed to mod anything from the inlet of the throttle body to the exhaust ports.

I only have a header 'cause I paid good money for it and want to use it. In hindsight, I wouldn't have purchased it... Furthermore, I wouldn't have purchased an Elantra had I known I was going to autocross.
Bobzilla
Meh. . .there's nothing wrong with the Elantra to do double duty. As strictly an auto-xer, yeah probably not the best choice. Bit for day to day comfort, reliabilty and the occasional weekend race I think it's the best of both worlds.
Toecutter
^^^This is true. Dont' get me wrong, I love my EGT. However, now that I have been bitten by the racing bug, I assure you that my next car, which won't be for another 5 years or so, will be quite different... then you can have my wheels.
Bobzilla
By then I'll be FSP or some such wild creature
Toecutter
So... yer sayin' that you won't want my 7" wheels anymore once you go to FSP?
Bobzilla
Probably not. "IF" that time comes, I'd kinda like to jump to an 8" wide with a 245 tire.

Anyway. . . . JohnsrEDgt, you should come up on the 15th of this month. We have a meet at Mt Comfort Airport. Be fun to run with another Elantra.

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