New ethanol mandate could damage vehicles Options

[Vinnie]

Grain of salt taken being faux news and all but political affiliation aside...

I know all my lawn equipment says nothing more than E85......

Detroit says it will ruin your engine. The EPA says it's safe.

Farmers say it's better than foreign oil. Oil companies say it's more expensive than gasoline.

But as Washington looks to compel refiners to blend more and more ethanol into gasoline, consumers are still left with the basic and critical question -- how much ethanol is safe to put in their cars?

Automakers warn the government's ethanol mandate could damage vehicles if it continues to grow.

"We just feel that it is not safe for the consumer. It's not safe for their engines," said Charles Drevna, executive president of American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers.

The questions about ethanol arise after Congress first mandated it in 2007. Ninety-six percent of gasoline sold in the U.S. is now 10 percent ethanol, a high-octane fuel derived from corn. But under that bill and rules favored by the Environmental Protection Agency, refiners are now being forced to blend up to 15 percent ethanol into gasoline sold at stations around the U.S.

The auto industry, though, says E-15 -- as the blend is known -- corrodes pumps, fuel lines and injectors. And manufacturers say they won't cover damages caused by the higher blend.

The American Automobile Association agrees.

"Ninety-five percent of today's cars are not suited for E-15 based on what people who make those cars say," said AAA CEO Robert Darbelnet.

The ethanol lobby claims automakers and refiners are overreacting.

"E-15 has been sold in this country for the past nine months with no issues whatsoever. This is a lot of hysteria that's being driven by the oil companies," said Bob Dinneen, head of the Renewable Fuels Association.

While there have been no issues reported so far, the new blend has only been sold in a handful of stations in the Midwest. But refiners are mandated to use 13.8 billion gallons ethanol this year requiring the 15 percent blend. The EPA says it is safe for cars built after 2001, but acknowledges it is inappropriate for boats and small motors, including lawnmowers and chainsaws.

Automakers advise new owners not to fill up on E-15 and say doing so may violate warranty terms, leaving customers to pay costly repair bills. Toyota and Lexus even placed warning labels on gas caps and owner's manual instructions caution not to use E-15.

"We think ethanol is a pretty good product, up to a point," said Drevna. "But when Congress mandates such massive quantities that we can't put into the fuel system, that the autos and the lawnmowers people and the marine manufacturers are saying 'We won't warranty, we won't put this in our engines, there is a problem'."

Ethanol supporters dispute that and claim studies back them up. Ethanol blends of 25 percent have been used for years in Brazil with no ill effects on the same cars sold in the U.S.

"We support what the EPA did because we know that E-15 is safe for the vehicles for which they have approved," said Dinneen."Let the marketplace decide. Let consumers that have a newer vehicle, that want to use E-15, give them the choice. If they want to use E-15 because it is lower cost, because it's domestically produced, because it's the only thing we have that's going to reduce greenhouse gases, then they ought to have that choice."

After a lengthy comment period, the EPA is expected to decide soon whether or not to relax the blend mandate. Some lawmakers are considering similar legislation should the EPA fail to do so. Right now, it is a lobbying war pitting farmers against oil refiners and automakers.

"Look, this is pretty simple," said Dinneen. "It's about a battle for the barrel. Ethanol, renewable fuels, have been phenomenally successful over the last several years, and we are now 10 percent of the U.S. motor fuel market. And the refiners are saying, 'no more'. They don't want to see E-15 succeed. I think the American public still understands the value in reducing our dependence on imported oil and seeing more domestic renewable fuels used."


source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/07/auto-makers-warn-new-ethanol-mandate-could-damage-cars/#ixzz2Sf03yAPv

[mlumz]

I hate ethanol and definitely do not want E15. My car doesn't run as well or get as good mpg and I swear it brings moisture into my engine as well.

[elantragt]

Ethanol sucks. Sorry corn farmers.

[RPW00Mirage]

very agree.

on the V forum, we have dyno charts proving how much of an efficiency loss and mileage loss running e10, and e15 over straight 87 octane gas. it is significant.

[jamhandman]

Yeah this is bogus. I wish I could get a hold of regular gas.... Sure it may work in brazil, but are the cars really the same? (emissions, engine types, etc.) Are they the same only by name? Ugh... this makes me want to get an electric or something...

[bhorste]

If you build the engine to run on it, it's great stuff. Look at Indy... been running on it for years. You can make plenty good power with it, but compression ratios, seals, all sorts of things need to be engineered just for it.

[Bobzilla]

LARGER injectors, different spark and fuel maps, different hoses..... yes the car has to be made to run on it. If it's not, it will not work worth a damn.

[slowgls]

I really hate Ethanol!!! With a passion.

[Silentwolf]

"We support what the EPA did because we know that E-15 is safe for the vehicles for which they have approved," said Dinneen."Let the marketplace decide. Let consumers that have a newer vehicle, that want to use E-15, give them the choice. If they want to use E-15 because it is lower cost, because it's domestically produced, because it's the only thing we have that's going to reduce greenhouse gases, then they ought to have that choice."

We support what the EPA did because we know that E-15 is safe for the vehicles for which they have approved,

Why doesnt the EPA use E10/15 for mpg testing then??

Let the marketplace decide. Let consumers that have a newer vehicle, that want to use E-15, give them the choice.

WHERE IS OUR CHOICE?!?!? The govt/epa has pretty much mandated that stations/oil companies use E10 so only Mom n pop stations are few and far between with Efree gas. Why isnt our choice right there at the same pump with E-free and E10 next to each other? Because no one would buy the E10 gas.

because it's the only thing we have that's going to reduce greenhouse gases

BUL F***ING S***!!! It takes more resources to produce the stuff!

"Look, this is pretty simple," said Dinneen. "It's about a battle for the barrel. Ethanol, renewable fuels, have been phenomenally successful over the last several years, and we are now 10 percent of the U.S. motor fuel market. And the refiners are saying, 'no more'. They don't want to see E-15 succeed. I think the American public still understands the value in reducing our dependence on imported oil and seeing more domestic renewable fuels used."

HELL, I, the consumer, dont want to see it succeed. And when the Auto companies are taking the time to warn customers and even put it in the owner's manuals says something about the falsehoods of Ethanol.

[jamhandman]

I heard somewhere about how growing corn is one of the worse things for the environment.... I think it requires a lot of water and fertilizer or something....

If the EPA doesn't test the cars with E10... where do they get their gas? I'm testing my car all the time..

[RPW00Mirage]

growing corn is bad simply because it has no nutritional value and is a filler in everything.

don't get me wrong, i LOVE munching on a corncob as much as the next guy, but still.

[elantragt]

Our government is being hypocritical here. They're constantly saying how cars need to get more MPG, right? Yet, this ethanol garbage is much more inefficient than "real gas". I've read some claims that mileage could be 20% lower with this corn crud. It seems to me this really is about is giving farmers a helping hand and that's all well and good but give me the choice of what I can put into my car's gas tank. It's ridiculous that virtually no one sells non-ethanol gasoline. And why is it that the government allows the gas companies to charge rip off prices for this diluted, useless and harmful product? Government for the people? Hmmm... I think that concept ended a long time ago. This whole thing pisses me off big time. Can you tell?