Touring is **more** expensive than Mazda 3 5-door?, Ummm, what… the… heck??!?!
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Touring is **more** expensive than Mazda 3 5-door?, Ummm, what… the… heck??!?!
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Aug 8 2009, 03:24 AM
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Howdy Group: Lifetimer Posts: 954 Posts Per Day: 0.14 Thanks Received: 20 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 9-October 05 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 1,485 Mood: Confused |
After finally seeing the Touring in person, it’s a pretty nice car. But I can’t help but think about how under powered it is. So I was thinking about other alternatives and stopped by the Mazda site to configure a new 2010 Mazda 3 5-door.
I thought it would be a lot more expensive, but MUCH to my surprise, the cars are priced almost identically – with Hyundai costing $15 more dollars. For this price, features are pretty much the same, but here are the differences that I can find… Hyundai Elantra Touring: • Gets heated mirrors • Sunroof • Heated front seats • 5 year/60K bumper to bumper warranty • 10 year/100K warranty power train warranty • More cargo room? • 23 mpg city / 30 highway / 26 combined • Timing belt and “green stuff” coolant – more maintenance, more money, more inconvenience, and more chances for someone to screw up your car. Mazda 3 5-door • Bigger engine with significantly more power (167 hp, 168 torque) • 5-speed automatic (compared to Hyundai’s 4-speed) • Turn signals built into mirrors • Legendary handling • 3 year/36K bumper to bumper warranty • 5 year/60K power train warranty • 22 mpg city / 29 highway / 25 combined • Timing chain and long-life coolant; lower cost to maintain. Less headaches. I could care less for a sunroof and heated seats. So, even if you subtracted the $1500 “premium sport package” from the Touring (assuming you can even get it that way in the US, at this moment), that would only make the Touring’s MSRP $1500 cheaper (with less-eyecatching16 inch rims) than the Mazda. It’s a significant amount of money, BUT, if I plan on owning the car 10 years, I’m not sure how much I’m going to miss the $1,500 – especially considering how many people have been commenting on the lack of power – that would make for a long 10 years. However, I suppose if you take the 1,500 savings and throw in a 1,500 rebate, we’re talking $3,000 price difference. Now you have my attention. Still… can’t they just put a bit more power in the Touring? I mean, come on. Reliability wise, I’d put the Hyundai up against the Mazda any day. In fact, from looking at the Mazda 3 forums, I’d guess the Hyundai would be more reliable. But who knows – only time will tell. The Hyundai requires more maintenance though -- which could negate your initial savings -- I guess it would depend on how good of a bargain you got and how much your mechanic costs (or if you do the maintenance yourself). ANYWAY, if you want the Touring with the 17 inch rims, you gotta opt for the “premium sport package” which makes it more expensive (MSRP wise) than the Mazda 3 hatch. The Touring is a great car, but I don't understand Hyundai's strategy here... Plus, even if all else were the same (handling, features, gas mileage, etc), throw in the Mazda's better resale value and less demanding maintenance schedule.... and from a "dollars and cents" point of view, reasons to buy the Touring get diminished even more. Problem is, "dollars and cents" is kinda suppose to be Hyundai's specialty. PS -- "yes" I see the typo in my image: "expsnive". Too lazy to fix: Should be "expensive". = )
Attached File(s)
-------------------- 2002 GLS Auto
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Aug 8 2009, 03:29 PM
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The teach Group: Lifetimer Posts: 6,786 Posts Per Day: 0.97 Thanks Received: 0 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 24-February 05 From: Tacoma Member No.: 426 Mood: Calm |
I bought my 09 Mazda S Touring 5 door for 17,500, which was 2 weeks before the 2010's came out. Original price was 19,400. Dealers will haggle and I was able to deal with them easily. Now is a good time to deal.
As far as maintanance, the Mazda 3 has the same maintanance as the Hyundai, but on the forums, most people complain about the weak points on the car, which are the dog bone motor mounts, a soft shift linkage bushing and the automatic trans not allowing you to manual shift it if it overheats (which is to protect the trans, it will go in automatic mode if it gets too hot), but in my experience, the Mazda overall is in the shop less than Hyundai over a long period of time. Many of the problems people have is owner created. Owners tend to create their own issues and abuse the car or expect the car to do well without basic maintanance. The Mazda handles roads much better than the Hyundai, and is capable of handling the road much better than specifically the HD/FD. The Elantra Touring has the exact same suspension design as the HD and although stiffer, the E Touring is prone to the same issues as the HD. The Mazda requires little to no suspension mods to handle well. Engine wise, the Mazda gets decent fuel mileage, but not as good as the Hyundai. I can get 32-34 max on the highway. The HD got more, but it is a lighter car too. The 3 in the sedan can get up to 40 mpg, with the 2 liter, but the 2.3 liter (2.5 liter for 2010) has the power. -------------------- "Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman |
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Aug 8 2009, 03:42 PM
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Howdy Group: Lifetimer Posts: 954 Posts Per Day: 0.14 Thanks Received: 20 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 9-October 05 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 1,485 Mood: Confused |
Transmission over heating!!? That's not good. I didn't see that issue. Is the transmission over heating with normal use, or are they auto crossing it, or what?
I'm not sure what you mean by the maintenance being the same though -- one has a timing chain, the other a belt. One has long life coolant, the other regular coolant. -------------------- 2002 GLS Auto
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Aug 8 2009, 04:49 PM
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The teach Group: Lifetimer Posts: 6,786 Posts Per Day: 0.97 Thanks Received: 0 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 24-February 05 From: Tacoma Member No.: 426 Mood: Calm |
Transmission over heating!!? That's not good. I didn't see that issue. Is the transmission over heating with normal use, or are they auto crossing it, or what? I'm not sure what you mean by the maintenance being the same though -- one has a timing chain, the other a belt. One has long life coolant, the other regular coolant. The ATX in manual mode can overheat under normal use if you gear down and go up a long hill. The reason is the transmission cooler, which is the size of a average tuna can (it is called a tuna can cooler because it is shaped like the tuna can) is small and the cooling is not enough to rapidly cool the trans fluid far enough to keep it from going into automatic mode. In the manual, it specifically states when the trans is in manual mode and you are pushing the car, it can go into automatic mode as a normal thing. I have not had mine do it, but have heard it happening quite often. What people have done is put a tranny cooler on the car to keep the fluid from overheating, which is a known issue with all Mazdas. The Mazda 6 with the V6 and 6 speed automatic has the potential to overheat enough to ruin the trans. The maintanance is about the same, regardless of the chain/belt and coolant. Overall maintance on the 2.3 (which does have a timing belt, the 2.5 has a chain) is comparable and drivability issues, I find are similar. Fluid changes are the same. The Mazda does require a OEM filter and a special tool to remove/install the oil filter housing cap. One common mistake people make with the Mazda 3 is they remove that plastic cap to access the filter with pliers and end up cracking the cap. Another common mistake is people don't watch the o-rings when they replace the cap and the o-ring does not seat properly in the housing as the cap is screwed into the housing. That is due to carelessness and the inability to pay attention to what you are doing. What the S Touring does not come with, but is wired up for is an alarm module. The BCM does not have the alarm built into it. The alarm module is located in the trunk. It is available on the GT version, but lower models don't have it. -------------------- "Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman |
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Aug 8 2009, 06:48 PM
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Club Newbie Group: Members Posts: 31 Posts Per Day: 0.01 Thanks Received: 1 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 4-August 09 From: Illinois Member No.: 7,487 Mood: Hopeful |
Well it must be the shearing of the ATF molecules at high temperature. I would use Mobil1 Synthetic ATF Multi-Vehicle or a comparable brand instead of whatever their "Mazda ATF" is.
It sounds like either the ATF is thinner than water to overheat like that, or a bunch of people drive those Mazdas like idiots. You cannot drive a tiptronic as a stick shift, no matter if it has the "manual mode". No wonder why the tranny reverts to automatic mode by default when abused. Also, lots of people either have no idea they can actually change the tranny fluid every ~ 36,000 miles (or otherwise specified by the manufacturer), or they never read the owner manual. Good ATF is vital in prolonging the tranny's functioning years. This post has been edited by WillPartHyundai: Aug 8 2009, 06:49 PM -------------------- A proud member of the club.
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Aug 8 2009, 07:02 PM
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The teach Group: Lifetimer Posts: 6,786 Posts Per Day: 0.97 Thanks Received: 0 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 24-February 05 From: Tacoma Member No.: 426 Mood: Calm |
Well it must be the shearing of the ATF molecules at high temperature. I would use Mobil1 Synthetic ATF Multi-Vehicle or a comparable brand instead of whatever their "Mazda ATF" is. It sounds like either the ATF is thinner than water to overheat like that, or a bunch of people drive those Mazdas like idiots. You cannot drive a tiptronic as a stick shift, no matter if it has the "manual mode". No wonder why the tranny reverts to automatic mode by default when abused. Also, lots of people either have no idea they can actually change the tranny fluid every ~ 36,000 miles (or otherwise specified by the manufacturer), or they never read the owner manual. Good ATF is vital in prolonging the tranny's functioning years. The ATF Mazda requires is a M-V (M5) and like Hyundai, other fluids can damage the transmission. The main issue with the tranny overheating is the cooling capacity of the cooler. It is smaller than what Hyundai uses and can do well under light use. Moderate/heavy use can overheat the tranny regardless of how it is driven. Driving it in shiftronic mode is the same as a manual shift; it won't upshift by itself unless you do it. Hyundai shiftronic transmissions shift up on their own; Mazdas do not. It won't let you downshift if your speed is too high. Mazda does recommend a ATF change at 30,000 miles regardless of use. The manual does not state it needs changing, but the manufacturer does recommend a 30,000 mile interval ATF change. -------------------- "Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman |
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Aug 8 2009, 07:18 PM
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Club Newbie Group: Members Posts: 31 Posts Per Day: 0.01 Thanks Received: 1 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 4-August 09 From: Illinois Member No.: 7,487 Mood: Hopeful |
Speaking about Hyundai:
Did you know that are so many other "brands" SPIII compatible? Actually Hyundai buys the ATF in bulk and sells it via the parts counter in dealerships as "Hyundai specific ATF". If I tell you that even the Super Tech Multi Vehicle ATF is SPIII compatible i bet you wouldn't believe me. -------------------- A proud member of the club.
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Aug 8 2009, 08:38 PM
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The teach Group: Lifetimer Posts: 6,786 Posts Per Day: 0.97 Thanks Received: 0 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 24-February 05 From: Tacoma Member No.: 426 Mood: Calm |
Speaking about Hyundai: Did you know that are so many other "brands" SPIII compatible? Actually Hyundai buys the ATF in bulk and sells it via the parts counter in dealerships as "Hyundai specific ATF". If I tell you that even the Super Tech Multi Vehicle ATF is SPIII compatible i bet you wouldn't believe me. Multi-vehicle ATF is not SP-III ONLY compatable. Hyundai Corporate has not authorized the use of multi-vehicle ATF because it is been proven that it has components in the fluid that are not compatable with the internals in the transmission vuilt by Hyundai. It may say it is compatable, but in reality it is not; and there are many threads about this particular topic. A TSB was written because of people using non-authorized fluids in the Hyundai. TSB 09-AT-006 specifies the specific fluids for all Hyundai automatic transmissions. It also states that no aftermarket additives are to be used in the transmission and to use only the fluids stated in the manual or those fluids approved to be used for the specific vehicle. \ 09_AT_006.pdf ( 22.19K ) Number of downloads: 48 -------------------- "Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman |
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Aug 8 2009, 11:12 PM
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GT for life! Group: VIP Members Posts: 6,303 Posts Per Day: 0.90 Thanks Received: 478 Trader Stats: 2 (100%) Joined: 27-January 05 From: Greenville, SC Member No.: 34 Mood: Optimistic |
Guys I see this going downhill quick. . . . so please keep it on topic! B)
This is not an ATF discussion. -------------------- Please consider helping keep the club online and independent. Donate here to help the club.
Current Car: 2013 Hyundai Elantra GT, 6 spd manual w/ the style and tech packages Previous Hyundai's: 2011 Hyundai Sonata SE in Venetian Red; 2006 Hyundai Sonata GLS, 3.3L V-6 in Ebony Black; 2004 Elantra GT, 5 spd manual in tidal wave blue |
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Aug 8 2009, 11:30 PM
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The teach Group: Lifetimer Posts: 6,786 Posts Per Day: 0.97 Thanks Received: 0 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 24-February 05 From: Tacoma Member No.: 426 Mood: Calm |
Guys I see this going downhill quick. . . . so please keep it on topic! B) This is not an ATF discussion. Mazda has similar ATF requirements as Hyundai does. However, Mazda does have a insufficient cooling issue on their ATX's because the cooler is too small for the application. Hyundai has the cooler built into the radiator. Mazda on the other hand uses a standard radiator without a internal trans cooler as what is found on standard trans equipped cars, but use a cooler that uses engine coolant coming from the heater core. on my car, coolant runs through the heater core, then to the tuna can cooler, then back to the engine at the thermostat housing. The trans on the Mazda, as I pointed out can be a weak point, and should be discussed as I tried to do. -------------------- "Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman |
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Aug 8 2009, 11:45 PM
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Howdy Group: Lifetimer Posts: 954 Posts Per Day: 0.14 Thanks Received: 20 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 9-October 05 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 1,485 Mood: Confused |
Overall maintance on the 2.3 (which does have a timing belt, the 2.5 has a chain) is comparable and drivability issues, I find are similar. Fluid changes are the same. The Mazda does require a OEM filter and a special tool to remove/install the oil filter housing cap. One common mistake people make with the Mazda 3 is they remove that plastic cap to access the filter with pliers and end up cracking the cap. Another common mistake is people don't watch the o-rings when they replace the cap and the o-ring does not seat properly in the housing as the cap is screwed into the housing. That is due to carelessness and the inability to pay attention to what you are doing. What the S Touring does not come with, but is wired up for is an alarm module. The BCM does not have the alarm built into it. The alarm module is located in the trunk. It is available on the GT version, but lower models don't have it. Thanks man. All good info. The 5-door hatch (what I'm interested in) does have the 2.5, so it gets the timing chain. Kinda lame that it doesn't have an alarm. That's kinda standard these days, isn't it??? OK, OK... Check this out: So, I was out for dinner and passed a Mazda dealership that I didn't even know existed (I'm new to the area). After dinner I wanted to get a good look at the 5-door hatch. It was like 8:30, so I figured they would be closed. Well, there was one sales guy sticking around -- waiting for the finance guy to finish up some paper work. So he showed me the 5-door hatch. WOW. NICE CAR!!! It was my first time getting a good close-up look at one. The outside / exterior looks were pretty nice and the interior was very, very high quality. I mean, don't get me wrong -- Hyundai has come a long way with the Touring's interior quality, but the Mazda 3 wins. Sorry, it just does. The seats were awesome too. I noticed that Hyundai is making their seats wider and wider for fat people and I'm skinny and small framed, so that kinda sucks (for me; I guess for fat people it's awesome). The Mazda seat hugged me well -- really nice. He didn't have time for a test drive because it was late, but I'm going to go back tomorrow and see what the skinny is on drivabilty. My main concern is that the ride might be too harsh. Plus:
So, it's not the perfect car. Even if I do fall in love with it on the test drive, I don't have a good reason to buy a new car (especially one so expensive), and the idea of parting ways with a lot of my hard-saved money doesn't sound real appealing right now -- so there's not a good chance I'll be getting one real soon. Maybe, if by random 'chance', something major would be kind enough to break on my Elantra.... I could be swayed. = ) -------------------- 2002 GLS Auto
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Aug 9 2009, 12:02 AM
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The teach Group: Lifetimer Posts: 6,786 Posts Per Day: 0.97 Thanks Received: 0 Trader Stats: 0 (0%) Joined: 24-February 05 From: Tacoma Member No.: 426 Mood: Calm |
It was my first time getting a good close-up look at one. The outside / exterior looks were pretty nice and the interior was very, very high quality. I mean, don't get me wrong -- Hyundai has come a long way with the Touring's interior quality, but the Mazda 3 wins. Sorry, it just does. The seats were awesome too. I noticed that Hyundai is making their seats wider and wider for fat people and I'm skinny and small framed, so that kinda sucks (for me; I guess for fat people it's awesome). The Mazda seat hugged me well -- really nice. He didn't have time for a test drive because it was late, but I'm going to go back tomorrow and see what the skinny is on drivabilty. My main concern is that the ride might be too harsh. Plus:
So, it's not the perfect car. Even if I do fall in love with it on the test drive, I don't have a good reason to buy a new car (especially one so expensive), and the idea of parting ways with a lot of my hard-saved money doesn't sound real appealing right now -- so there's not a good chance I'll be getting one real soon. Maybe, if by random 'chance', something major would be kind enough to break on my Elantra.... I could be swayed. = ) The Mazda seat fits me better, but I'm real small (5'3" and 95 lbs) and I tend to slide in any seat. I have noticed that if I'm pushing the car, I'm sliding more, which I'm going faster than I did in the Elantra. The Elantra seats are more cushy, but are wider and I slide even more. The trans issue is a common one for the Mazda and Ford (which Mazda uses the Ford drivetrain) and putting a aux cooler solves the problem easily. Won't void the warranty if the aux cooler is hooked up inline with the OEM one. What is different though is Mazda has a internal replaceable filter in the trans. Some cars don't have alarms or security systems. Mazda has an immobilizer which is good on their cars, but alarms only come in the GT package. Heated seats are an option. Heated mirrors are not an option, but might be available. Check with the dealer about this. The 2010's are different than mine. The radio comes with sat radio and an aux port. My radio display shows the time and outside temperature, which the A/C uses to monitor the way the A/C works. The higher end model also displays the trip meter on the same display. -------------------- "Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman |
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