This is an archived forum community. It's currently closed to new memberships.
ElantraClub - for all generations

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

7 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 > »   
Closed TopicStart new topic
> Touring is **more** expensive than Mazda 3 5-door?, Ummm, what… the… heck??!?!
cclngthr
post Aug 10 2009, 05:36 PM
Post #25 | Print


The teach
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 6,786
Posts Per Day: 0.97
Thanks Received: 0
Trader Stats: 0 (0%)
Joined: 24-February 05
From: Tacoma
Member No.: 426
Mood: Calm


QUOTE (natesi @ Aug 10 2009, 02:25 PM) *
Thanks all -- good conversations.

As for serious problems with Hyundais... I'm not really aware of any.

Other than a fuel regular issue when the car was fairly new, an exhaust manifold recall, and the ECU rehashed I haven't had any any think break. Oh and my turn signal doesn't cancel on left turns when it's over 85 degrees out, but I seem to be the only one with that issue.

The brakes suck because they are too small and continually warp and the auto transmission is wonky, but those items are not "broken".

Common issues for the Elantra when they get older are wheel bearings, TPS, and speed sensor. None of which I've had issues with on my early 2002 build (yet).


The Hyundai's have had issues with the ATX when people put the wrong fluid in, which I saw a lot of when the XD came out. I changed quite a few ATX's on XD's from 2002-2004 because the trans failed. The XD had a lot of issues with the purge valve and roll over valve that fails; a lot of TSB fixes that same year (04) for various drivability issues. The 05's have a issue with brake rotors warping easy. Bob was saying his 02 is beginning to use some oil. I have seen a increase of ATX failures when the mileage is over 100,00 miles due to wear. We don't know much with cars over 100K yet, so that is something to watch out for.


--------------------

"Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natesi
post Aug 10 2009, 10:33 PM
Post #26 | Print


Howdy
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 954
Posts Per Day: 0.14
Thanks Received: 20
Trader Stats: 0 (0%)
Joined: 9-October 05
From: Vancouver, WA
Member No.: 1,485
Mood: Confused


You're claiming "... there have been quite a few Hyundai's that have had more serious issues (which are known here) that plague owners."

Sorry man, but with as much respectful as I can possibly give you, I largely disagree.

Maybe what you and I call "serious" are two different things. Here's my perspective on the issues you mentioned. Once again, just my perspective -- I don't mean to start a flame war or anything, but you opened a can of worms there, and I'm obviously not living in the same reality as you might be. Not saying my reality is the correct one, but let me explain how I see things....:

QUOTE (cclngthr @ Aug 10 2009, 03:36 PM) *
The Hyundai's have had issues with the ATX when people put the wrong fluid in, which I saw a lot of when the XD came out.


How is it Hyundai's fault that someone put the wrong fluid in? Doesn't every manufacturer have their own ATF now? Toyota, Mitsu, Mazda.... just to name a few. My perspective: that is not a "serious issue".


QUOTE
The XD had a lot of issues with the purge valve and roll over valve that fails; a lot of TSB fixes that same year (04) for various drivability issues.


In all seriousness, that's the first I've heard of these problems and I'm a long standing member of the board -- plus I was reading the board for years before I joined. Not saying there were not issues (they must be if there are TSBs on them), but the car certainly isn't "known" for these problems. If it were, I think we would all see frequent posts like, "CEL again -- The dreaded purge valve" or "More 2004 drivability issues". Or there would be a "sticky" on it, or something. I'm not aware of these as previlant or notorious issues.

Even if I'm wrong (I could have been living on another planet the last 6 years), this is an emissions issue covered under warranty. Even if it wasn't under warranty, how is it a serious issue? "Serious issues", to me, are like "known" issues that affect a significant amount of owners and are unduly or unreasonably cumbersome, continual, common or maybe unfixable, or prohibitively expensive or unreasonable to fix. Things like a major flaw that affects the car's reliability, or something that could break and cause a major component of the car (engine/tranny/ect) to self destruct, or could leave the owner stranded without warning, or cost a substantial amount of money to repair, or keeps breaking and costing the owner a lot of money because there's an inherent design flaw that can't reasonably be remedied. Something like that.

Examples:
GM 3100/3400 V6 notorious for intake manifold gasket failure
GM alternators (every stinking GM I've owned has needed AT LEAST one)
Northstar heads that all eventually pull out, the engine has to be dropped, and new anchors installed into the block.
90's Ford V6's notorious for overheating and cracked heads
Thunderbird transmissions lucky to see 100K or much beyond
Rear brakes disintegrate on W platform GM cars
VW engine oil consumption
VW electronic sensor issues, continual window regulator failure, interior switch gear breakage, etc.
6th Gen V6 Camry auto transmission.

I'm not an expert on all Hyundai's, but I don't know of notorious issues that modern (2001-2002+) Hyundai's are "known for", except maybe the wheel bearings on the elantra after they get older, TPS, and speed sensor. But I wouldn't call those "serious" issues. Generally you fix them once and the problem is solved for the rest of the life of the car. Early 06 Sonata's had squeecks and rattles, rear shock issues (now addressed), and no baffles in the tank so you could hear gas sloshing around. But come on... Cruise on over to the Camry forum and even the 5th Gen Camry owners have common issues (regarded as one of the most reliable Camrys). And 6th Gen Camry owners flat out admit it has it's fair share is issues.


QUOTE
The 05's have a issue with brake rotors warping easy.


Perhaps -- can't speak to this issue specifically. Although every rotor I've put on this car warps because they are too small. It's annoying as hell, but I wouldn't call it a serious issue. It won't cost you serious money unless you can't stand warped rotors and it's generally not considered a safety issue unless it's extreme, and it certainly won't leave you stranded. Warped brakes are a fact of life -- it's just that with the elantra, you're probably going to have them warped more often than not. I will admit though, it's one of the weakest spots of the car, it's not easily fixed, and something that drives me utterly bat S#%$ crazy. I might give you this one, because it is a common problem, but I think to call it a serious issue is a gray area.

QUOTE
Bob was saying his 02 is beginning to use some oil.


One guy complaining of oil consumption is hardly a serious issue, IMO. Couple key words here: "02", "beginning", and "some". So it's old, and it's just starting to burn "some" oil. If Bob says his car is burning oil than I'm sure it is. But who else's older Elantra is having the problem? I have beat the living day lights out of my 02 for the last 6 years and I've never noticed any oil consumption. Once again, this seems like an exaggerated issue -- these cars are not known for that. This isn't what I would call a "significant issue". If you want a car known for burning oil, go over to the VWVortex forum and you'll see what I'm talking about.

QUOTE
I have seen a increase of ATX failures when the mileage is over 100,00 miles due to wear. We don't know much with cars over 100K yet, so that is something to watch out for.


There should be LOTS of 2001-2002 XD's on the road with 100+K, as I think it was Hyundai's best selling car at the time. I also think it makes sense that the more miles one puts on their tranny the more failures will occur. I only recall reading ONE post on here that I would call a premature failure (not due to putting the wrong ATF in) where a guy's pump went out and I think he had something like 150K on it.

I'm not invalidating your claim -- I don't doubt you see MORE cars with over 100K on them have tranny failures, as compared to cars with less than 100K. But, once again, I think you are exaggerating the issue. "Something to watch out for" due to lack of data doesn't quality as a serious issue in my opinion. And don't know who would agree that this car is known for premature auto tranny failure. In fact, I think I've seen posts to the contrary. Furthermore, when I took my car to an independent mechanic just weeks ago, he told me his opinion was that the tranny on these are fairly solid. I'll grant you, they are picky with fluid levels, and shifting could be improved, but these are not serious issues -- it's just the nature of this tranny. I mean, the Mazda3 first came out in 2003 -- by the same logic you could say there's not a lot of data on the longevity, therefore the transmission (or any other part on the car for that matter) is a serious issue?? Doesn't make sense to me.

-----

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Don't take any of it personally -- I don't mean it as an attack -- that's just how I see things... which don't appear to be in alignment with how you see things.


--------------------

2002 GLS Auto
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
popeye
post Aug 11 2009, 12:42 AM
Post #27 | Print


Idiot Savant
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 9,573
Posts Per Day: 1.42
Thanks Received: 256
Trader Stats: 4 (100%)
Joined: 20-September 05
From: Trumpistan
Member No.: 1,406
Mood: Uncertain


Of the above I can only vouch for the rotor issue, it's a well known fact that they suck warp easily.


--------------------


To Helena Handbasket!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cclngthr
post Aug 11 2009, 01:06 AM
Post #28 | Print


The teach
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 6,786
Posts Per Day: 0.97
Thanks Received: 0
Trader Stats: 0 (0%)
Joined: 24-February 05
From: Tacoma
Member No.: 426
Mood: Calm


QUOTE
How is it Hyundai's fault that someone put the wrong fluid in? Doesn't every manufacturer have their own ATF now? Toyota, Mitsu, Mazda.... just to name a few. My perspective: that is not a "serious issue".


This issue of putting the wrong fluid in is seen more with Hyundai because they designed the transmission in a way that it can fail with other fluids in it. The fluid is also a specialty fluid only available at a dealer. Mazda (to keep it simple and consistant) on the other hand did not design the trans in a way that it fails if the wrong fluid is put in in a short period of time (like Hyundai). The Mazda fluid, Mercon 5 and M-V (M5) is widely available, which tells me that people are more aware of the type of fluid required for the car, and its ease of availability (and parts stores carry the stuff) knowledge of the particular type of fluid is better known. Less knowledge can mean a secretive mode on the part of Hyundai. Since SP-III is not well known, the less the owner and parts stores know about it, the greater the risk for damaging the transmission.

QUOTE
In all seriousness, that's the first I've heard of these problems and I'm a long standing member of the board -- plus I was reading the board for years before I joined. Not saying there were not issues (they must be if there are TSBs on them), but the car certainly isn't "known" for these problems. If it were, I think we would all see frequent posts like, "CEL again -- The dreaded purge valve" or "More 2004 drivability issues". Or there would be a "sticky" on it, or something. I'm not aware of these as previlant or notorious issues.


The purge valve and roll over valve is a common problem on the XD. Dealers have told me this as well as a lot of people on forums (mostly on EXD and other forums) have had to have them replaced. A issue like this should not happen. This is a poor design.

QUOTE
Perhaps -- can't speak to this issue specifically. Although every rotor I've put on this car warps because they are too small.

I call this a design flaw. Rotors should not warp easy. The XD does need a larger rotor. The HD brakes are better, given the fact that they are 11 inch rotors.

QUOTE
One guy complaining of oil consumption is hardly a serious issue, IMO. Couple key words here: "02", "beginning", and "some". So it's old, and it's just starting to burn "some" oil. If Bob says his car is burning oil than I'm sure it is. But who else's older Elantra is having the problem? I have beat the living day lights out of my 02 for the last 6 years and I've never noticed any oil consumption. Once again, this seems like an exaggerated issue -- these cars are not known for that


A car should not consume oil regardless of mileage, or use. I've had cars with over 250,000 miles that did not use oil between changes and see that as a good design. I remember Bob saying that the beta engine is known for oil consumption, and him working for Hyundai at one point, I think he said that because he has seen more of that.

QUOTE
There should be LOTS of 2001-2002 XD's on the road with 100+K, as I think it was Hyundai's best selling car at the time. I also think it makes sense that the more miles one puts on their tranny the more failures will occur. I only recall reading ONE post on here that I would call a premature failure (not due to putting the wrong ATF in) where a guy's pump went out and I think he had something like 150K on it.


I don't frequent only this forum. I frequent more forums and more has been mentioned about the increased failures over 100K. I think a trans should last over 200K with proper maintanance; i.e. fluid changes, but you have to figure in there is no replaceable filter in the XD, which makes it hard to keep the debris contained. With that in mind, failure rate increases with mileage over 100K is more without a filter than with a filter. I call that a poor design.

Mazda does have a cooling issue with their ATX. It easily overheats. That is a design flaw, which can cause a trans to prematurely fail. The problem is the cooler, which is too small. When the warranty is expired, it is up to the owner to get it fixed, and transmission repairs are not cheap.


--------------------

"Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sed
post Aug 11 2009, 06:34 AM
Post #29 | Print


Mouse Hunter
Group Icon
Group: Members
Posts: 3,678
Posts Per Day: 0.53
Thanks Received: 12
Trader Stats: 0 (0%)
Joined: 28-January 05
From: Boynton Beach, FL
Member No.: 153
Mood: Devious


hmm

Well the forums that you "frequent"....

I have either been a moderator, professional contributor or just a plain old member.

As far as your claims go:

Rotors warping on a 14k car?

yes they warp, especially if they are supercooled from superhot (hard breaking into a puddle)

design flaw? no, materials choice flaw? yes.

Purge valves failing?

not so much, if you want to talk about something that is PREVELANT, then you would be talking about the input/output speed sensors, THOSE do fail on a regular basis, but are so simple to fix I hardly call that a problem.
Heres a SS of that TSB, which by the way IS NOT FOR THE PURGE VALVE. it simply is for low pressure in the evap system, which could be the canister, the line, the purge valve or a myriad of other things.


Now, if it was such a major issue, it would be simply: Have this problem? change this part, Just like the TSB for the input/output speed sensors.

Bob's 02 using oil.

Man, the guy freakin auto-xs on the car, he BEATS that car, what do you expect?

tranny issue with no "filter"

wtf? have you ever even done a tranny service on an xd? Do you not see the internal filter that you have to change with that service? asinine.


--------------------

(07:01 PM) elantragt - Hell I couldn't even sell our calendars to all the people who had their car in it! lol
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bobzilla
post Aug 11 2009, 07:15 AM
Post #30 | Print


Proud GLT Owner
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 21,140
Posts Per Day: 3.04
Thanks Received: 633
Trader Stats: 3 (100%)
Joined: 11-March 05
From: Brownsburg, IN
Member No.: 532
Mood: Hyper


My using oil is on the Accent. THe Elantra is using a half quart of oil over 4k miles. Accent's 1.5 SOHC is using about a quart every 2-3k. The accent has 165k. The Elantra has 111k HARD miles. Hell, our 06 GMC truck uses about the same amount of oil the Elantra is. So if you're basing that as your example of "issues" you got nothing.

As for my Elantra, this car has been beaten. Redline daily in the first 2 gears, ran hard, put away wet. I rev match every down shift and allow the engine to slow me down more than the brakes. I drive more wth the throttle than anything else. It was auto-x'd for two full seasons. Has made numerous cross country trips, the most recent just a month ago with a 15 hour straight through bonzai run from Port Canaveral to home. (map quest had it as 17 hours) The car has sat for hours running 70+ mph, through the mountains. It ran US52 through west Virginia (think the Dragon, only 150 miles of it) without a hitch.

Trust me, you don't want to use me for your retarded research.


--------------------

Founding Member of the Indiana Chapter of the Teeny Weeny Club for Secure Adult Males

"Drag racing is for fast cars, and autocrossing is for fast drivers" -Toecutter
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cobas
post Aug 11 2009, 11:01 AM
Post #31 | Print


Nanomember
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 7,787
Posts Per Day: 1.11
Thanks Received: 57
Trader Stats: 2 (100%)
Joined: 27-January 05
From: College Park, MD
Member No.: 106
Mood: Blah


Talk about actual design flaws... my wife's old Subaru SVX was a cool car, but the transmissions commonly failed around 60-80k miles. Their forum members were talking about being on their "second" or "third transmission." Nearly all the cars had rear wheel bearing issues too. My wife's was in need of a third set of rear bearings when the transmission failed around 72k miles. Sold it for $500. Cool car... pity it wouldn't run right for long. sad.gif


--------------------

Help keep ElantraClub running and free for all Elantra owners: Donate.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cclngthr
post Aug 11 2009, 11:45 AM
Post #32 | Print


The teach
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 6,786
Posts Per Day: 0.97
Thanks Received: 0
Trader Stats: 0 (0%)
Joined: 24-February 05
From: Tacoma
Member No.: 426
Mood: Calm


QUOTE
tranny issue with no "filter"

wtf? have you ever even done a tranny service on an xd? Do you not see the internal filter that you have to change with that service? asinine.


There is no filter to change on an XD. Did mine regularly. There is more chance of debris going through the system on those transmissions without a filter than with a filter.

QUOTE
THe Elantra is using a half quart of oil over 4k miles. Accent's 1.5 SOHC is using about a quart every 2-3k. The accent has 165k. The Elantra has 111k HARD miles. Hell, our 06 GMC truck uses about the same amount of oil the Elantra is.


It should not use any oil. Period. Had engines with over 250K that used zero oil. GM, Fords, Toyotas etc.
QUOTE
if you want to talk about something that is PREVELANT, then you would be talking about the input/output speed sensors,


Speed sensor failures are due to poor electrical systems. Fix that, no more problem. Small wiring and poor grounds.

My thing is, when cars have to go into a shop for things other than general maintanance, or needs fluids regularly, there is a potential for ongoing extra costs, and time at the shop that is unnecessary. Customers are happier when they have a car that is basically trouble free of defects. Other than regular maintanance (brake pads/fluid changes, oil/filer, trans service, wheel bearing repack, tires, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, PVC valve, coolant/thermostat change) a car should not have to be in the shop for things that break or needs repair on an ongoing basis.


--------------------

"Childhood is measured by sounds and smells and sights before the dark hour of reason grows"
John Betjeman
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sed
post Aug 11 2009, 11:48 AM
Post #33 | Print


Mouse Hunter
Group Icon
Group: Members
Posts: 3,678
Posts Per Day: 0.53
Thanks Received: 12
Trader Stats: 0 (0%)
Joined: 28-January 05
From: Boynton Beach, FL
Member No.: 153
Mood: Devious


omg dude you are trying to say there is no internal paper filter on the tranny of an xd?

seriously? have you even seen a tranny kit for the car? three gaskets and a filter lol

I mean, misinformation is one thing, but this is outright ridiculous


--------------------

(07:01 PM) elantragt - Hell I couldn't even sell our calendars to all the people who had their car in it! lol
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bobzilla
post Aug 11 2009, 11:58 AM
Post #34 | Print


Proud GLT Owner
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 21,140
Posts Per Day: 3.04
Thanks Received: 633
Trader Stats: 3 (100%)
Joined: 11-March 05
From: Brownsburg, IN
Member No.: 532
Mood: Hyper


Most of my oil loss is minor seepage from the cam cover (that I've not fixed). Any abused engine will burn/seep oil over time. I will not lie, I have beaten mine to within an inch of life repeatedly. A half quart of oil during an oil change is normal.

QUOTE
It should not use any oil. Period. Had engines with over 250K that used zero oil. GM, Fords, Toyotas etc


haha.gif That's funny. Go back to fantasy land and stop spouting lies. Honduh K-series engine use a quart of oil every 1500 miles. That is expected because they are a high rpm engine. So by the time their OLM tells them to change it, they;re usually 2-2.5 quarts low. Sometimes 3 qts. All NORMAL.

So please, stop while you;re not too deep. Man up and admit that you're not always right and go on with life.


--------------------

Founding Member of the Indiana Chapter of the Teeny Weeny Club for Secure Adult Males

"Drag racing is for fast cars, and autocrossing is for fast drivers" -Toecutter
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
natesi
post Aug 11 2009, 05:00 PM
Post #35 | Print


Howdy
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 954
Posts Per Day: 0.14
Thanks Received: 20
Trader Stats: 0 (0%)
Joined: 9-October 05
From: Vancouver, WA
Member No.: 1,485
Mood: Confused


QUOTE (Bobzilla @ Aug 11 2009, 09:58 AM) *
haha.gif That's funny. Go back to fantasy land and stop spouting lies. Honduh K-series engine use a quart of oil every 1500 miles. That is expected because they are a high rpm engine. So by the time their OLM tells them to change it, they;re usually 2-2.5 quarts low. Sometimes 3 qts. All NORMAL.


Bob is right about that. I use to own a Civic Si, from brand new. It tended to use a quart every 3-4K which was par for the course. But that was the K20A3, which wasn't even a particularly high-rever (ONLY a 7200 RPM redline).

= )


Anyway, good points; good discussion. Let's not let it become a blood bath though. I mean, if the man wants to believe that a 250k engine shouldn't use a drop of oil, I suppose he's entitled to his opinion. I disagree, of course, but that's just MY opinion.


--------------------

2002 GLS Auto
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
popeye
post Aug 11 2009, 05:48 PM
Post #36 | Print


Idiot Savant
Group Icon
Group: Lifetimer
Posts: 9,573
Posts Per Day: 1.42
Thanks Received: 256
Trader Stats: 4 (100%)
Joined: 20-September 05
From: Trumpistan
Member No.: 1,406
Mood: Uncertain


As an aside I checked the oil the other day and found it needed a half a quart. It's been about 8k since I changed it last... I plan on changing it again soon, when I find the time lol


--------------------


To Helena Handbasket!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
7 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 > » 
Closed TopicStart new topic
1 user(s) are reading this topic (1 guests and 0 anonymous Users)
0 Members:


Collapse

> Similar Topics

  Topic Replies Topic Starter Views Last Action
No New Posts Thanks for the help
0 elantragt 24,391 11th December 2018 - 06:55 PM
Last post by: elantragt
No New Posts Thank you.
11 Spectre 13,275 29th March 2017 - 08:32 PM
Last post by: bhorste
No New Posts More Time at the Car Wash
Trying to wash the paint off the car
3 Tex GT 11,845 9th July 2016 - 07:23 PM
Last post by: rstnick
No New Posts Is Hyundai's new conservative sedan styling failing?
sales numbers
3 elantragt 10,832 11th May 2016 - 06:51 AM
Last post by: RPW00Mirage
No New Posts Is this a wise move, defecting from my Saturn L to an Elantra?
Thinking of defecting from a 2000 Saturn L to Elantra.......
4 cavalier 5,494 3rd January 2016 - 11:42 PM
Last post by: mlumz


 



Copyright 2022 The Elantra Club    
Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 08:41 AM
Elantra Club is not affiliated in any way with Hyundai Motor America