Drifting isn't fast, in case you weren't sure Options

[cobas]

Sport Compact Car tested three Subaru WRX STIs on the same short track - one stock, one setup for road racing and one for drifting. They picked the course with some really tight turns to favor the drift car. Also, the drift car had some big engine upgrades to 460hp and 500lb-ft. Unfortunately other things were different too - suspensions, brakes, weight, track, etc.

Their results were that the RWD drift car was significantly slower than even the stock AWD car, despite a 160hp / 200lb-ft advantage. The roadracing car even lost to the stock car in a few sections, but overall the road racing setup was 2 seconds faster. 44 vs 46 seconds. The drift car was over 49 seconds.

I would actually prefer a comparison of the same car driven in different styles to see if drifting has any advantage. WRC drivers constantly slide the rear around corners in time-attack style racing, so I have to believe they're not doing it to look cool. There must be some critical point where oversteer goes from useful to hurtful, and drifting is beyond that, and rally racing should be right there, I'd think.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features..._sti/index.html

[Vampyrate]

well, i know that awd/4wd is better for acceleration and handling in/out of corners and straights. the drift car automatically loses there, since they are designed to slide around turns and thus get loose.

the drift car imo would really suck in a race since it loses so much speed sliding in the turns...

the thing about the stock car i find interesting. what are the suspension specs on each car if you know them? i think the whole thing comes down to power/weight ratio between the road racer and the stock car.

[cobas]

Specs on page 3 of the link. Interestingly, the drift car has an upgraded front sway bar, stock rear, and coilovers and a roll cage. I would've guessed the opposite sway bar but I don't know the STI. The road racing car was pretty decked-out... coilovers, sway bars, Hoosier tires, strut bars, roll cage, two-piece rotors, Hawk blue racing pads, etc. But only upgraded ECU, fuel pump and stuff. The drift car had forged pistons, bigger turbo and whatnot. Very different cars unfortunately.

[Vampyrate]

i guess this is where forza knows what its talking about...

drift setups, call for body roll very slightly to help with the weight transfer, where as the road racer is fairly stiff so that its most, if not all power to the wheels...

then again, the tires used would have been an interesting thing... a very powerful car with slick tires will never outrun a moderately powerful car with sticky tires

[Frick]

Do rally cars slide the back end around when they are on pavement? I don't think they do, but I could be wrong.

I also wouldn't call rally cars drifting. They tend to slide the back end around very quickly, not leave it hanging out. When the back end is hanging out, you are wasting power that could be used to accelerate the car.

On the same line of thought, dirt cars are drift cars. Again, they aren't on pavement and idea is to get the back end around as quickly as possible so you can apply all of the power to acceleration.

[ricerrx7]

then again, the tires used would have been an interesting thing... a very powerful car with slick tires will never outrun a moderately powerful car with sticky tires

I hope you're not buying into the 3fast 3furious hype where they said "the tires are slick". That's simply untrue. They use VERY sticky tires for drifting.

[Midnightsky]

WRC drivers constantly slide the rear around corners in time-attack style racing, so I have to believe they're not doing it to look cool. There must be some critical point where oversteer goes from useful to hurtful, and drifting is beyond that, and rally racing should be right there, I'd think.

I am currently in the process of finding a good parking lot to test this out during winter. I'm really leaning towards yes it is useful sometimes.

[cobas]

Here's great example(s) video: They'swing' the car into the straight line after the corner, maybe sometimes they overshoot a bit. Sometimes its wet pavement, and the second video has a bit of dirt and snow too, but lots of dry asphalt.
Is it possible they do that just because they're used to doing it on dirt, but it's not useful?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yfkUYsrNFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAVW4SSZkck

[SWortham]

Do rally cars slide the back end around when they are on pavement?  I don't think they do, but I could be wrong.

They do, but not as much. They do it a lot around the really tight hairpins. The good drivers do it best where there's only maybe 10 degrees of slip angle. The late Colin Mcrae was good at that. But, if you drift too much you will just go slower.

I suppose part of the reason you still see drifting on tarmac in the WRC might be that it's easier to correct for a blind decreasing-radius corner if your car is already rotated for it. In other words, since they don't know the stage they're driving by memory, it's almost easier to drift around a blind corner and still get a fast exit, than it is to 'guess' at a racing line and hope you don't run out of room at the other end. Of course, hopefully their pacenotes are good enough that they don't have to do too much guessing.

But, as you're getting at, drifting has more of an advantage in the dirt and snow. The idea is that the edge of the tires dig into a soft surface and will guide the car in the direction it's pointed.


EDIT -- Oh, the other thing to consider is that AWD will allow you to drift and accelerate at the same time much better than RWD. So if SCC wanted to be scientific about it, they should've used an AWD STI with stiff sway bars and tons of power as their drift car.

This post has been edited by SWortham: Oct 7 2007, 08:53 AM

[Vampyrate]

I hope you're not buying into the 3fast 3furious hype where they said "the tires are slick". That's simply untrue. They use VERY sticky tires for drifting.

what i mean by that is that, the drift tire has a progressive slip to them as compared to a normal racing tire.

Drift tire: slow loss of grip so that the driver can control it
Race tire: fast loss of grip to send the car into a near impossible to control spin/slide

[Midnightsky]

what i mean by that is that, the drift tire has a progressive slip to them as compared to a normal racing tire.

Drift tire: slow loss of grip so that the driver can control it
Race tire: fast loss of grip to send the car into a near impossible to control spin/slide

Ya I agree with you on that one man. I would love to build a WRX into a drift/rally car, it's all about how you adjust your setup. Truely my next car needs to be an AWD WRX, maybe STi but I'm not sure I want to spend that much money. I'd much rather build it up from a plain AWD WRX, that way you get lots of time to get to know your car.

[roydjt]

Ya I agree with you on that one man.  I would love to build a WRX into a drift/rally car, it's all about how you adjust your setup.  Truely my next car needs to be an AWD WRX, maybe STi but I'm not sure I want to spend that much money.  I'd much rather build it up from a plain AWD WRX, that way you get lots of time to get to know your car.

The only reason to get a car and modify it like that is if you are going to spend some serious track time with it. Using that kind of driving technique is not safe on public roads at any time. Ask Hulk Hogan's kid. I hear he was a professional drifter, and he wrecked his Supra a little while back. Almost killed his passenger and was lucky there were no other drivers or pedestrians in the area. Also, if you are going to drive around a track like that, you should be prepared to lose it at any time, because a wreck is one millisecond away at all times.

-Roy