Is the Elantra REALLY that outclassed? Rating Options

[Bobzilla]

So, this morning I was lookingat this years Nationals results and noticed a 2.5 impreza that trophied. iirc, THE 2.5 Impreza weighs 3020lbs, has a machpherson strut suspension and 165hp. . . right? Torque curve that mimics the Elantra's, flat and broad. I believe he ended up 8th of 51.

So how can a car that weighs over 200lbs more than mine be that much "better"? My thoughts: Driver. THe car CAN compete, it just has to have the wheels literally driven off of it. . .

THoughts? Ideas?

[silet]

The only thing I can think of, other than the driver you mentioned, is a better balanced car with AWD weight and traction.

[Bobzilla]

But is AWD all that helpful on a slow small course like autocross? Since I changed to better tires I have YET to lose traction exiting a corner.

[silet]

I think AWD does have a slight advantage over FWD when it comes to traction, weight transfer and balance, especially on small courses. I would say that it would be less of a difference in faster and more open venues.

[mregt02]

Bob,
AWD does permit one to get on the gas much faster when leaving a sharp turn, to me I think that would be a great benefit on short courses. If you're not on the gas you're not accelerating, it also helps the launch but I think that one is more dramatic with the Turbo'ed cars vs the NA's.

[Bobzilla]

^ True. . . but all that extra weight hinders it's transitions on slaloms. Extra mass is a bad thing, no matter how low to the ground it is. Considering that the 2.5 is OVER a 1000lbs heavier with driver than the civics, I just found it interesting.

Give me another year or two. . . then we'll go see.

[fgummett]

I agree that the Elantra has much going for it such as a small turning circle, accurate steering and turn in. I think that with the right rubber and suspension set-up it should perform well on a 1st and 2nd gear twisty track. I wonder how much more can be done to stiffen the chassis..?

[silet]

What happens though in a better balanced car, even if it's heavier, is that its load is transfered to wheels that actually have power and reduce the front wheel steering torque and understeer. Just think that you divide the power and remove all the FWD negative handling characteristics by feeding power t o the rear wheels. A balanced car will perform better than one that is not, even if it is heavier.

[Doohickie]

Damn.... y'all are back and posting for a while now....

[Bobzilla]

What happens though in a better balanced car, even if it's heavier, is that its load is transfered to wheels that actually have power and reduce the front wheel steering torque and understeer. Just think that you divide the power and remove all the FWD negative handling characteristics by feeding power t o the rear wheels. A balanced car will perform better than one that is not, even if it is heavier.

True BUT. . . . . unlike the STX WRX's it doesn't have enough power from the N/A 2.5 to overcome the understeer qualities it still has. If it had another 50-60 hp that could actually overcome the rear wheel traction, that might be different. . . .

I'm just thinking outloud here. I been hoping Steve-o would chime in since he's our resident Subie expert.

[saturn]

here is why:

-AWD
-higher revving engine (less shifting) - he probably never gets close to 3rd - less destraction - less time wasted shifting - is his automatic?
-boxer engines are mounted really low = lower center of gravity = easier to maneuver car
-driver (no offense)

convert your elantra to AWD and lower it and stiffen up the suspension and you'll probably beat him

[Bobzilla]

2.5 bOXERS don't rev higher. Their redline is 6500 like us. I shift once, our broad torque band and second gear is perfect. I might buy the lower CG, but the car is still heavier, meaning it has more mass to change directions.

We're talking about a Nationals level, medal winning driver, of COURSE he's going to be better than me. That wasn't even a question. My point was, a 3k lb car is keeping up with/beating 2k lb civics on a national level using a strut suspension very similar to ours. Other than AWD and an extra 20hp (which is offset by the weight) the cars are very similar.