Header(s) DO NOT ADD HP!!! Options

[Bobzilla]

Yeah my dad knows a really good tuner I think he would be able to do something

You should likely find out BEFORE you spend a shit ton of money. Just a suggestion. I can't count the numberof noobs that have rolled through thinking that they can get it tuned like any other import only to get a nice little shock. They spend $1500 on parts that mean squat because the PCM's haven't been cracked and no one has software to tune them.

Just a suggestion.

[korea_senpai]

Tuning isn't even worth it unless you are adding forced induction which is not entirely a good idea either. The exhaust system on newer cars so not to be trifled with, cat-backs are ok because basically they are there to widen and straighten the exhaust flow after the catalytic converter so its not really a hinderance to the information the o2 sensors are gathering about eh a/f ratios.

[mbenz]

I'm just saying, but I know people that have a whole setup not on my car but get like 15-20 hp gains and that's untuned. I feel as Senpai said that only forced induction I'm just saying I know a guy I wouldn't get a tune for a header intake and exhaust that's just pointless IMO. All my friends that are running turbos have tunes but people that are running all motor don't have tunes and they are running strong

[winc]

On newer emission-controlled engines, pretty much ANYTHING you do as a performance mod will likely need a tune to get the most benefit as the multitude of sensors are looking for parameters and variances, and when they're too far out of spec, the computer will try to over-compensate to get it back within spec. Changing out your catalytic converter could have the system hunting for why the oxygen sensor readings are abnormal, potentially giving it too much or too little fuel. A header could leave the exhaust temps too cool or too high for a converter to properly burn off the emissions, causing the same situation as swapping out a converter. When you get a tune written, they want to know everything you've done, from a big-bore throttle body or CAI to a catback exhaust... EVERYTHING!!! Tuners even write for different octane ratings for best performance. Wouldn't you think that the manufacturer has already tried just about everything possible to eke whatever power or economy benefits they can out of the engine?

[Bobzilla]

I'm just saying, but I know people that have a whole setup not on my car but get like 15-20 hp gains and that's untuned. I feel as Senpai said that only forced induction I'm just saying I know a guy I wouldn't get a tune for a header intake and exhaust that's just pointless IMO. All my friends that are running turbos have tunes but people that are running all motor don't have tunes and they are running strong

I don't know how else to say this....... It's not a fucking Honda. How many of your friends are tuning hyundais?

[sed]

The point of all this is to find out the definition of "tune".

Throwing a SAFC or Split Second on a B or D series motor with a turbo and fuel regulator is not tuning. With our cars, the only way to truly get the car running right is to compensate for all variables that the ECU is adapting to. You have to remember that we have one of the first highly regulated adaptive learning ECU systems and it doesn't like to be messed with.

To get my A/F Ratio and Fuel within spec I had to use: External Fuel Pressure Regulator, Colder Spark Plugs, Larger Fuel Pump, Larger Injectors along with a split second ARC2 AND a PSC1 plus about 20 hours with the R4 software. This is before I've even taken the car to the dyno. I very well may have messed my math up and have to start over when I see actual numbers.

Thats just fuel management. I tried using a UNI-Chip but could not get anywhere near where I wanted within the time frame I needed to be in .

The word "Tune" is used so lightly, its not a small thing that a friend of a friend of a mechanics friend will do for cheap nor necessarily correct

[silet]

^^^ Absolutely correct!!! A "tuned engine" done right has to have the ECU do ALL the work with no piggy-back or add on simulators.

If anyone tells you they have a friend that can tune your Hyundai, THEY ARE MISINFORMED!!! Some manufacturers allow I/O to the ECU and others do not.

mbenz, I'm sorry to say this, but if you get a header installed, you are not going to be happy with the performance AND you will probably hate the driveability.

The benefit of a header is to provide increased performance. When you improve the exhaust flow you increase HP, at higher RPM and also move your torque curve at higher RPM. To get the torque back down rpm, you need to increase intake volume, adjust ignition timing and control A/F ratio. The bolded part of this paragraph you can not do the right way.

What does that mean in the real world? A stock Elantra would probably beat you at the drag strip...

[Tony240]

What everyone must realize is that the technology that has gone into production of todays motors are much more advanced and improved their output, you will see that 1.8-2.0L motors have the same output numbers as an early-mid 90's large 4 cyclinder motors for example.

a decade or more ago you can slap on an intake/header/catback system, go dyno and see an improvement of 10-20HP depending on the car of course.. as there was potential for improvements back then.

in this generation now you really need to spend the money to get any results, you do the same intake/header/catback now you MAY get the same or less results but you also need to tune the vehicle to run properly and get those numbers, also the parts have gotten much more expensive.


best bang for buck in this era is to turbocharge/supercharge the motor, make adjustments required to run those setups and tune, may spend THOUSANDS in the process but thats the quickest and best way to get the results that anyone looking for.


I ordered an intake some time ago but then I cancelled my order, why am I going to spend clost to $300 cdn for almost no improvement except for the intake sound if I plan to step on the pedal and waste more gas.

[sed]

Well, you can use fuel management add-ons for our ECU. Intercepting the signal from the ECU to the injectors, clamping the signal back to the ECU and altering the pulse to the injector WORKS, but it literally needs to be set up within 50rpm intervals to be effective. A higher pressure regulator also helps, but only a mechanical unit that simply ups the pressure of the line, not by altering the signal.

This all needs to be put to larger injectors that pulse more fuel at the levels the ECU will output.

Adjusting ignition timing and cam timing is pretty much impossible without actually changing the physical parts involved, the E.C.U. will literally adjust out of spec to "fix" any timing pull that is done electronically.

Long story short, bolting parts on the car without helping the ECU adapt to those parts do not show gains as they would on other cars.

You can tune these cars though, it all comes down to dedication and creativity.

This post has been edited by sed: Aug 15 2012, 09:37 AM

[BNystrom]

You can tune these cars though, it all comes down to dedication and creativity.

You forgot to add: "and lots of time and money".

[Mayberryman]

Headers have always been a double edged sword in my book, even in the 70s when engines were not so complicated and computer based. I remember a very good friend who put a set of racing type headers on his ford 351 CID truck right before we went to Lime Rock Park for a race. The exhaust sounded very good because he also put glass packs on it. The bad part was that about three months later the headers and new mufflers cost him an additional $500 bucks or more for fairly extensive engine work. It seems that the headers and new mufflers increased the exhast flow so much and due to the fact that he had not adjusted the carb or put a larger Needle and Jet in it the truck continued to run on a very lean side and burned the Valves. Lesson learned that year is that the act of bolting on one part of a preformance package and not the rest can be a VERY bad thing in the long run.

[Red Elantra GT]

Hey-I installed headers on a Toyota many years ago and drove it twelve years without a problem.